Ep 74: Your Brand Isn’t for Everyone, And That’s the Point

Today’s marketers aren’t just communicators, they’re storytellers competing for attention, emotion, and connection. In this episode of Higher Ed Conversations, GradComm CEO Cheryl Broom sits down with Kelly Hiller from Purdue University to unpack how higher ed marketing has shifted from simply delivering information to crafting meaningful, human-centered stories that actually resonate.

Together, they dive into Purdue’s brand transformation and what it took to build something that is both distinctive and scalable across a decentralized institution. If you’ve ever felt the pressure to make your college “everything to everyone,” consider this your reality check. Because knowing who your brand is not for is just as powerful as knowing who it is for, and that clarity is what leads to stronger, more ownable storytelling.

What You’ll Learn: 

• Why higher ed marketing must evolve from information delivery to emotional storytelling
• How to uncover and leverage the human truth in your institution’s stories
• Why your brand shouldn’t try to appeal to everyone (and what happens when it does)
• How Purdue built alignment across a decentralized campus
• How to create messaging frameworks that resonate with different audiences 

Thanks for listening!

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Higher Ed Conversations is hosted by Cheryl Broom, CEO of GradComm, a marketing and branding agency specializing in community colleges and public education.

Transcript

[00:00:00] Cheryl Broom: Well, great. Well, thank you Kelly, so much for joining me today on the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here.

[00:00:05] Kelly Hiller: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

[00:00:07] Cheryl Broom: let's start off, tell me a little bit about your journey into higher education. What drew you into this industry?

[00:00:12] Kelly Hiller: Sure. Well, once I finished up my marketing degree, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do or you know, what field I was interested in. And while I was in school, I had been working in the finance industry and I, and I knew that wasn't the fit for me. And I just happened to see a job opening at Ivy Tech Community College in Indianapolis.

[00:00:31] Kelly Hiller: And applied and got the job. And really that's when I started to fall in love with higher education. And I think the moment that really hooked me was attending my first graduation and just seeing the pride on, you know, the parents' faces this. The partner faces, the children's faces 'cause they have a lot of traditional as well as non-traditional students.

[00:00:53] Kelly Hiller: And just having that experience like this was, you know, it's different than product marketing a little bit. And that you, you're doing something that in a way changes lives. And I find that just very, very fulfilling and it's what's kept me in higher education, for so many years. And I still enjoy going to graduations.

[00:01:10] Kelly Hiller: It's not something that I've loved. You know, I've gotten used to, or I don't find exciting anymore. I still, every time I leave, I, you know, I leave one with a smile on my face. because, you know, like your work played a, a small part in that experience. And so it definitely keeps me fueled.

[00:01:27] Cheryl Broom: It's so interesting that you bring up graduation because our company named Graduate Communications. That is the whole reason I named our company. Graduate Communications and now we call ourselves Grad Comm was because when I worked at a community college campus graduation, it's the Pinnacle event.

[00:01:45] Cheryl Broom: It's where you see the role that everybody on campus plays. I mean, from the marketer to the janitor, to the faculty member. We've all played a small part in that student's journey and getting them to the finish line. It's kind of the pinnacle of, of what it's all about is

[00:02:02] Kelly Hiller: It is, it's the grand finale. and I just think there's no experience like it, no feeling like it. And it's, it's a real milestone in people's lives. And I think there's you know, not a lot of brands for, certainly some that really have, that really take part in such a milestone moment.

[00:02:18] Cheryl Broom: Oh, for sure. It's such a great thing to be a part of as a marketer too. Now, you've, you made the leap from community college to Purdue, which is really like a globally known brand. What, what has that been like?

[00:02:30] Kelly Hiller: well, it's been great and I've been here over 20 years, so definitely has, it's been a wild but fulfilling ride. So when I was working at Ivy Tech, a colleague had moved on to Purdue at the time, and a job opening came and she was like, Hey, I think, you know, there was some elements of the work that was doing in at Ivy Tech from a.

[00:02:49] Kelly Hiller: Programmatic perspective that aligned with this new position. She's like, I really think you should apply. And at the time that also like it was just the optimal for a life change. You know, working at Purdue meant moving back closer to home and we had just had our second child and so. Being back home closer to grandparents.

[00:03:07] Kelly Hiller: And also working for a university that I already loved and respected was just a, a win-win situation. So I joke around with, you know, those when I interview for positions now to work on our team don't judge me because I have been here for over 20 years. That does not mean I lack ambition. cause I'm a very ambitious person.

[00:03:25] Kelly Hiller: What this means is I love the brand and I love the work and we work with really great people. And so I, you know, I have. I really enjoyed my experience here and still do.

[00:03:35] Cheryl Broom: Well, and what's so interesting about being somewhere for 20 years is you've really been able to see a lot of shifts and a lot of trends change. And, and when you and I spoke last time, we talked a lot about this shift from marketers really being information providers to today being storytellers.

[00:03:52] Cheryl Broom: And you've really embraced that shift. And tell me a little bit about how your staff and your team are such great storytellers and how you weave that into your work.

[00:04:03] Kelly Hiller: I mean, I really think it's central to our work. We view ourselves as the chief storytellers of Purdue University. So as you know, we approach every, every year, every initiative. We think about what are the human elements. The stories, the emotion that come into play to really demonstrate to someone, you know, why should they care?

[00:04:22] Kelly Hiller: We're competing for time, which is everyone's most valuable resource. And so there are some times where you have to, you know, deliver information in a very succinct way, but most of the time you are looking to influence someone's perspective, someone's, you know, level of awareness. And when you're coming at it from that lens, you, you have to connect with storytelling of a, of a human truth.

[00:04:46] Kelly Hiller: That hopefully resonates with them and grabs their attention and gets them to listen and make an impact. So doing that through stories versus just a, a graphic through words or something like that, is it, I mean, it's antiquated at this point to do, to do it that way and expect to be effective and to have staying power.

[00:05:04] Cheryl Broom: What are some other trends that you've seen over the years? Like, you know, we, we hear about helicopter parents and tiger parents. Have you seen a change in the way parents are approaching college or the way students are finding information? What are some of the things you've, you've noticed?

[00:05:18] Kelly Hiller: Sure. We're definitely seeing that. Parents are more involved in the process and that students are relying on their parents more as a part of the decision making process. I mean, it's usually the parents bringing the student, you know, to the visit and engaging. I would say even at a more. At a higher level than the students as far as like questions and wanting information and wanting details.

[00:05:42] Kelly Hiller: So we've really taken that into consideration because, I mean, this is a big decision, so you don't wanna underscore that it's an investment of time. It's an investment of, of resources, of money, all. Different types of things. And so we do, you know, we, we don't take that for granted. And so, you know, one thing we've done this year when we redid our view book is having dedicated information for parents that is more built out more customized of kind of the frequent questions that.

[00:06:08] Kelly Hiller: We were seeing being asked and the things that parents really care about and just making sure that we're intentionally engaging them, not as an afterthought or not kind of operating with the expectation that, okay, we're gonna give this to the student and the student is gonna pass it along to the parents.

[00:06:23] Kelly Hiller: So we're doing some things that target the parents directly in order to have the information that they need in order to make a decision that they feel confident about for their student or advise their student in a very confident and informed way.

[00:06:37] Cheryl Broom: That is such great advice to intentionally engage parents, and it makes me reflect on my own college journey with my 17-year-old because I, I'm trying to let him make his own decisions, but man, he just makes. Really poor decisions. Sometimes like,

[00:06:55] Cheryl Broom: you know, a college will reach out, he's a soccer player. Coach will reach out and he'll go on to TikTok and within five seconds decide yes or no. And it's like you can't make a decision

[00:07:06] Cheryl Broom: on the next four years of your life o over some TikTok video. Like, let's look at things together, let's go

[00:07:13] Cheryl Broom: to the website. You know, so

[00:07:14] Kelly Hiller: And a lot of times that comes down to the visit. cause I, you know, I'm in the same boat now. I have college aged kids and I you know, I have one at Purdue right now and I have a, a daughter who's 17 and we're looking at schools and I. Every place has a culture and you have to go on campus and experience that to understand is this place gonna be a fit for me?

[00:07:36] Kelly Hiller: 'cause it's your home for the next few years. So it does need to feel right. You, you need to feel like you can see yourself as a part of that culture and the really the best way to do that. And you know. Maybe it's the old school in, this is an in-person visit where you're seeing the place, you're feeling the place, you're hearing how people talk, how they reference different things.

[00:07:57] Kelly Hiller: You know, what, what community means, like to that university. And you know, it really varies from place to place, which it should because there's a lot of different, you know, a lot of different students with a lot of different needs. So, a university isn't a one fit, you know, a one size fits all. They all serve very different purposes.

[00:08:14] Cheryl Broom: Yeah, we, we went to one, recruit day at a college whose team he made, and they had a whole day for parents. And I left wanting to go to that college. I'm like, I wanna go

[00:08:25] Cheryl Broom: here. But, you know, he left saying, I don't, I don't think this is my, my place.

[00:08:30] Kelly Hiller: Mm, 

[00:08:31] Cheryl Broom: I was kind of bummed. I'm like, I love, I love this school.

[00:08:34] Cheryl Broom: And, anyway, long story short, he's decided he doesn't wanna leave home. It was too far.

[00:08:39] Kelly Hiller: Okay. Yeah.

[00:08:40] Cheryl Broom: that was a good thing to learn. That was a good thing to learn. So,

[00:08:43] Kelly Hiller: Well, I think part of that 

[00:08:44] Cheryl Broom: like, I wanna enroll.

[00:08:46] Kelly Hiller: And, and part of that process though, I mean, you, you then had a really informed conversation with him. Okay. Why doesn't this feel like it? What's not hitting for you? And then kind of you, I feel like you start to learn the puzzle pieces along the way of like, okay, what, what fits here?

[00:09:01] Kelly Hiller: What is all gonna fit together? And really pull together the picture that you're looking for. It's definitely a step-by-step process. I think those after visit conversations are really critical.

[00:09:11] Cheryl Broom: And it's great if you, as a marketer at a university, can give parents some guidelines like your FAQ questions or, or maybe even help, like here's some things you should talk to your student about after a visit or through the application process, and that's embrace that rather than, you know, be annoyed by it.

[00:09:30] Kelly Hiller: Oh, for sure, because they're you.

[00:09:32] Kelly Hiller: I mean, parents, they're a key customer audience as well. it really needs to be a fit for the family.

[00:09:38] Cheryl Broom: Right now you think of Purdue or I think of Purdue University, and I think most of our listeners would probably agree, like you've got a tremendous name recognition, a great, a great brand, but you recently, you know, went through you, you mentioned your redesigned your view book, you went through a research driven like brand strategy. What brought you to that point? Why, why did you need to do that and, and what was it like?

[00:10:03] Kelly Hiller: Well, I, I feel like now it's kind of going back in the way back machine, but we had our hundred 50th that wrapped up in 2019, and we are a very, which I think is common, a decentralized system. And so in that system, there's a lot of people on your campus, you know, who have the megaphone to talk. To talk about your brand and people were doing it in a variety of ways.

[00:10:23] Kelly Hiller: There really wasn't a unifying brand platform. We had a ton of different logos. We had a secondary color plat palette that we affectionately refer to as the Skittles palette. All kinds of things were happening. And then, and. What's amazing is despite all that, we still had a very strong brand. But then there was this moment during the one 50 where like everybody started rowing the boat together.

[00:10:46] Kelly Hiller: Everybody was jumping on the one 50. The messaging was consistent, the guidelines were consistent. And then, then that's where you really started to see the power of like, you know, we're strong separately, but we're a force. When we come together and we work together and, and we want more of that we don't want it to end when the one 50 is over.

[00:11:05] Kelly Hiller: And so that's when we really started digging in of, okay, if, if we want to, you know, be singing, we know, we say we can have a song, but everybody needs to be singing the same, the same course. And so if we want to do that, what does that look like? And that's when we dug in and, and developed the Giant LEAPS brand platform that started with learning our brand.

[00:11:23] Kelly Hiller: What are the brand drivers? That's the work that we did with. Brand trust where we brought in key stakeholders to have conversations about our brand, about, you know, how they feel, what, what do they think, you know, talking about different experiences, what did they smell? What did they see? What did they remember?

[00:11:39] Kelly Hiller: Really leaning into that sensory experience to try to. Pull through some common themes. So as we did that, we developed those brand drivers, those, those commonalities that came through those different interviews, and then rolled out that brand platform right before COVID in the spring of 2020. And, you know, we, we couldn't have predicted that timing, but at a time where we needed unification.

[00:12:03] Kelly Hiller: The, the timing couldn't. Have been any better in that we were now all aligned. We had, we got rid of the secondary palate. Things were a lot more structured. You know, we refer to it as freedom within the framework. There is freedom for that you know, that the messaging, but it's all in the same tone and the same voice.

[00:12:20] Kelly Hiller: It's, it's going back to, you know, you, there's a, you the ways you can say a lot of different things at Purdue, but ultimately it needs to be in brand character and really feel like we've achieved that. Because on the flip side of that. We also really focused at the same time of putting in more resources and tools in place that, you know, empowered the colleges, the units, the institutes, whatever the case may be, to have the tools that they needed to be in brand and in character by providing things like our template system a very expansive brand guide.

[00:12:53] Kelly Hiller: Like I said, different enterprise tools that, that they now had access to to help with their marketing and communications at the college program level, whatever it might be. And, and then that really, I felt was a critical moment for us. The other thing we did, and at the time wasn't, wasn't allowed, was expanding the use at the motion.

[00:13:11] Kelly Hiller: P So prior to that time period, the motion p was used exclusively for athletics. There was a different mark on the academic side. Well, our, our motion p is our most recognizable visible mark. And so bringing that into into the academic side also definitely sweetened the deal. It was something folks had been looking for for, for a long time.

[00:13:31] Kelly Hiller: And so through a series of decisions and launching that platform, I felt like we then built upon the momentum that we established in the one 50 of being, of being one Purdue and presenting ourselves in a way consistently that is reflective of the character of Purdue University.

[00:13:45] Cheryl Broom: That's fantastic I was really caught up on your talking about the research and talking about the sensory based interviews, and that sounds really different and really interesting. Can you give some examples of, of the questions that were asked or what you learned from that exercise?

[00:14:01] Kelly Hiller: Sure. So we interviewed a variety of stakeholders and it is a very it's a really interesting exercise to go through. So it's done in a couple different ways. One is, you know. It's kind of the, the two-way glass and someone's on the other side of the mirror being interviewed. We also did them over the phone and you have someone that, not from Purdue University intro reviewing them.

[00:14:19] Kelly Hiller: So it was an individual from brand Trust conducting the interview. So they feel like they do have like the, the space and the freedom to. Just say exactly what we're thinking, which is what we want. And so, you know, for example, talking to an alum, you know, can you tell me about the first time you were on Ex on Campus?

[00:14:34] Kelly Hiller: What were you seeing? What were you feeling? What did it smell like? Just di diving into those, or you know, what was an unexpected moment that you had during your time at Purdue? Talking to a faculty member. Tell me about a time you were walking through campus and, and you know, you met someone that wasn't, was unexpected, you know, what was that interaction like?

[00:14:55] Kelly Hiller: So a variety of questions of that nature. But we also went on the flip side of. A prospective student who got accepted Purdue and didn't choose to come. You know, what, what part of the tour did you feel like that didn't resonate for what you were looking for in a university? So digging into both sides of it and really understanding who your brand is for and who your brand is for not, is not because it's not one size fits all.

[00:15:20] Kelly Hiller: Like you are not for everybody and you shouldn't be. Like, what are the things that make. Purdue distinctly Purdue. And what are the, the attributes that, that match up with that? So we, you really dig into that and start to learn. And I'd tell you one of the things, you know, after working here for so long, you kind of become, you kind of look through things with rose colored glasses, right?

[00:15:41] Kelly Hiller: Is you're not as self-critical. And also on the, you don't necessarily recognize sometimes the things that maybe are unique just because you don't know. Any different. so one of the things that really stood out to me during those conversations was that the fact that Purdue felt students, like they were in it together, that they weren't competing against their classmates, but that they were working together to achieve something.

[00:16:05] Kelly Hiller: Whereas, you know, I view that as just like a normalcy at Purdue, right? We roll our sleeves up, we, we see the challenge, we figure out what needs. To be done and we get in there together and we figure it out. You know, it never kind of dawned on me that at other places it might be viewed more as a competition.

[00:16:19] Kelly Hiller: So it's, I think it's, it was a really good exercise, not only in defining the brand like that was fundamental, but also a nice refresher for those of us who, who are in marketing who'd been around for a long time, to kind of reset on our own beliefs and what we know about the place that we all, you know, care about so much.

[00:16:38] Cheryl Broom: That's great. Well, I wanna talk more about how you use this research and what you learned in order to tell a really ownable

[00:16:45] Cheryl Broom: story. But before we dive into that, let's hear a little bit from our sponsor. Alright, so we're back. So before the break, we were talking about the fabulous research that you did with Brand Trust that questioning both students who chose Purdue go to Purdue, graduated alumni, but also those who who didn't choose you, which I think is great because working with colleges and universities, a lot of them want to be. Something for everyone and they have a hard time really discovering what it is that makes them unique. And every college is unique. I mean, even the community colleges that we work with, that that do take, nearly everyone have unique traits,

[00:17:30] Cheryl Broom: unique programs, and, and they really have a hard time finding. What that is and telling a story that's ownable. And a lot of times the clients that we work with, the colleges we work with, you can just interchange their marketing. I mean, you could take this ad and this ad and just switch their names and their logos and it would, it's the exact same ad. So how have you gotten Purdue to a point where you're really your own brand?

[00:17:58] Cheryl Broom: Like it's a real ownable story that, that only Purdue can have.

[00:18:02] Kelly Hiller: Well that wa, that was a part of the work of the next Giant LEAPS platform and leaning into, you know, we're very proud of the fact that Neil Armstrong is an alumnus of Purdue University and are very proud of his words, you know. One giant, one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. And so we lean into that.

[00:18:23] Kelly Hiller: You know, nobody else can claim that we, e Neil's presence is very much felt on our campus. We have the Neil Armstrong Hall of Engineering. We have the Moon Boot footprints alongside that building. But then, okay. The essence of that is that there took, there was many small steps to that giant leap moment.

[00:18:41] Kelly Hiller: And so when we talk about differentiation and, and our storytelling, it really goes into our content strategy. So some stories are about that next giant leap of achieving something huge. But some stories are about what, you know, what were the small steps that that. Are inspiring your next giant leap, whereas others lean into the element of persistence of, you know, we embrace failure.

[00:19:05] Kelly Hiller: Sometimes you have to go again and again and again until you reach that next small step. So embracing it from different angles, that, that make it relatable that help drive the angle of your storytelling is, is really important. So after we, we finished up. The, you know, the brand platform. The next step we took was defining that content strategy and how are we going to frame our stories?

[00:19:30] Kelly Hiller: What is that going to look like to make sure we have a, a, a mix for our target audiences that resonates. So I'll give you an example. First. For, you know, prospective students, the idea of a giant leap is really intimidating. So when we're talking to prospective students, it's about taking the small steps that you, that you need to take, that you're strong enough to take in order to get to your next giant leap.

[00:19:54] Kelly Hiller: So, cus you know, thinking through it, through the eyes of our audience and we know all that from testing, is that they do find that intimidating. So when we talk, it is about the small steps and getting you ready for your next giant leap.

[00:20:05] Cheryl Broom: this makes so much sense, but I, I can't help but ask like, did you get anybody not liking it on campus? Did you ever get like people like, oh, that's not, you know, we're, we shouldn't just focus on, on Leaping and Armstrong and do, did you get any pushback because. We hear that a lot from colleges where they try to do something new and really own who they are or their history, and then some voice on campus comes back and kind of derails what they're doing.

[00:20:33] Cheryl Broom: Did you experience any of that in your process?

[00:20:35] Kelly Hiller: would say to a degree, but I think the differentiator. Was buy-in from the top. So when we rolled out the brand platform, we had an all day session in our union where for the first time, at least in my time at Purdue, we brought all the marketing communications professionals in one room at the same time.

[00:20:55] Kelly Hiller: And one that demonstrated like, we value you as a community, you're really important. You're, you're a part of the megaphone here when we talk about the brand. But our president at the time, Mitch Daniels. You know, you know, addressed the group and pretty much said this is not an option. He, he showed appreciation for the work and appreciation for the valuable role that all of these contributors in the room their roles in contributing to the, strengthen the strength of the Purdue brand.

[00:21:21] Kelly Hiller: But, but set the tone. That this was now an expectation moving forward. So when we have moments, you know, a lot of times it's when someone new gets hired to Purdue University, we do provide brand training. But if, if there isn't you know, if there, if there's some gaps instead of just coming along and side and saying, Hey, you're doing this wrong or you're not in brand we approach it out of a place of care and respect and say, Hey, I noticed this, this is off in brand voice, but let me help you get this to a better place.

[00:21:49] Kelly Hiller: And come alongside as that, as that helping hand versus kind of, you always get more with honey versus a stick. So we try to take the honey route.

[00:21:57] Cheryl Broom: Great. I mean, what, and what I'm hearing you say from, from the work that you've done is that you leaned in on a great process.

[00:22:06] Cheryl Broom: You did the research, you followed a process you got a neutral third party to come in and help you. You had leadership buy-in and you involved the campus. So I'm, I am reiterating this because I have seen, this just happened a couple weeks ago. People try to come up with a brand in ChatGPT,

[00:22:27] Cheryl Broom: like 

[00:22:27] Kelly Hiller: Oh no. Don't do that. Don't do 

[00:22:29] Cheryl Broom: Yeah. Cheryl, what do you think about all of this? These ideas I got in ChatGPT and I'm like, uh, and now AI's gonna give you the most common thing possible. It's not gonna give you what makes you unique. And and it was. They were, they were all tropes.

[00:22:44] Cheryl Broom: It was like, and then I met this trying to be nice and be like, okay, no, you need to follow a process. You need

[00:22:50] Cheryl Broom: to involve the campus. This is a big project. This isn't something

[00:22:53] Cheryl Broom: that you do over lunch or over the weekend.

[00:22:56] Kelly Hiller: No, this was months in the making, absolute months in the making. And you know, by the time we rolled it out, there was really no surprises. Like we had done a lot of socialization. So at the time during the one 50, we also f formed a brand council. So it was all like, the lead marketers from across the campus we're getting together at a regular cadence, talking through things, listening.

[00:23:18] Kelly Hiller: So they were also involved in the process. So when it launched, I'm sure there were people in the room that this was. New to. But for the most part, everybody knew, you know, that this was coming and at least had an inclination of what it was gonna be about and what it was going to entail. So that was a key part of the process.

[00:23:35] Kelly Hiller: And you're right, differentiation is key. I mean, one of the tests that we still do you know, when we're getting ready to roll out a big spot or you know, put something out into the world that we're anticipating is going to have a significant reach. It's the logo test. Could you take this piece of work and put another university's logo at the end of it?

[00:23:53] Kelly Hiller: And that makes sense. If it, if it does make sense, then we missed it was not dis it's not distinctively Purdue. I, if it passes that test.

[00:24:03] Cheryl Broom: Yeah. What a great test. I, I hope everybody out there is listening. Just slap on someone else's logo.

[00:24:10] Kelly Hiller: I know

[00:24:12] Kelly Hiller: it's one of my favorite things like to, especially like when you go through an airport and you see the sea of university ads, like where could you just switch out logos and you wouldn't know the difference.

[00:24:22] Cheryl Broom: By the way, do you do airport advertising? I have to

[00:24:25] Kelly Hiller: Oh my gosh, this is a hot topic. so

[00:24:30] Cheryl Broom: Can I stir the hornets nest a little? 

[00:24:32] Kelly Hiller: It says, I think what's really challenging from an airport perspective is. Particularly like our airports in Indianapolis. At any given time there's at least 10 universities advertising. So we have tried to be very strategic of, of when do we advertise because what we do consistently get is more alumni upset that we're not in the airport and.

[00:24:58] Kelly Hiller: Sometimes it's hard to communicate. Well, it's not for you. I'm, I'm trying to talk to audiences that don't know us, that don't already love us and, and educate them about Purdue University and increased brand awareness. So I feel like it's a constant kind of back and forth. There are times you know, we have been in like, we're, we're doing something in the spring.

[00:25:20] Kelly Hiller: 'cause we're in, you know. We're anticipating that we're going to have a, a pretty good basketball season and with March Madness, the Final four is happening in Indianapolis this year. So doing something in the airport around that time, you know, that makes sense.

[00:25:33] Kelly Hiller: But we're, we try to be really strategic in, in what we do at the airport, just because it is such a convoluted space when it comes to university presence.

[00:25:42] Cheryl Broom: Yeah, we're recording this right now in December and I just wrapped up speaking at seven higher education conferences. So I was in the Indianapolis airport, was one of the conferences, was in Indianapolis, and I should have taken pictures on my journey of all the university. Airport advertising. I'm like, this is crazy.

[00:26:03] Cheryl Broom: It must have been. It's wild. It's wild. So I'm glad I finally got to ask somebody about it. Yeah.

[00:26:10] Kelly Hiller: It's, it's a tough subject. Alumni get really upset about it sometimes that the, you know, they get off the plane, particularly if it's a rivalry situation and they have a really strong presence and you don't of, it's, you know, it's that. Competitive spirit comes out, which I totally get. I hear you. I feel you on that.

[00:26:29] Kelly Hiller: But we also know the reality of we're working with limited dollars and trying to maximize impact. So when I'm trying to maximize impact, I, it's more strategic to use those dollars in a way that influences awareness of a new audience or consideration of a new audience rather than an already loyal audience.

[00:26:48] Kelly Hiller: So I feel like it's a tug of war that I experience pretty frequently.

[00:26:53] Cheryl Broom: Well, and this gets me to another thing I wanted to ask you about, about brand marketing and, and airport marketing is how do you measure. Are, if you're successful, like with a project like, like what you did with your rebrand, do you track metrics? Do you look at outcomes? How? How can you tell when something like this is working?

[00:27:14] Kelly Hiller: Sure. We have a variety of methods and I would say we're are getting better and better at this practice. Our, our most consistent way we're doing it is on a bypro basis. So when I look at our enterprise campaign, which is targeted at an un. Affiliated academic and corporate audience. We did a baseline brand tracker of establishing what do, what do they already know about us?

[00:27:40] Kelly Hiller: Who is aware of us, what are the things that we're looking to shift? And then have repeated that once, like we'll repeat it. Again, at the end of the 18 months to see what we are impacting. But then we have other KPIs we're measuring. So in that instance it's web visits to landing page. It's the number of leads that we're generating.

[00:27:59] Kelly Hiller: It's watch time on our videos, other elements like that. Now, from an overall brand perspective, this is one where I feel I'm being honest here that, that we have some work to do. We are in the process of establishing a brand health scorecard, that. We have a set of metrics that we measure year over year.

[00:28:17] Kelly Hiller: We've had different things that we've measured as far as like messaging that probably comes top of mind from a brand perspective. And, you know, we've done awareness studies, those types of things. But I feel like we're evolving to a place where we need some. Routine measurements that we're going and measuring year after year.

[00:28:35] Kelly Hiller: So we start to exactly see where, where are we making impact, where we may be like sliding a little bit and, and have some routine measurement in addition to the very project specific things for all of our large campaigns, whether it be enterprise you know, our, in our STEM ERA activation, our Sunny Fest activation, whatever the case may be, we always have KPIs that we go into that project with.

[00:28:59] Kelly Hiller: But from an overall brand perspective, we're to that point where we are establishing a brand health scorecard as well as developing some ongoing dashboards and Looker Studio where we can measure a variety of things, that are linked to our annual goals document to see how we're tracking. So I believe our sophistication in there is, is dialing up, I think.

[00:29:21] Kelly Hiller: This is one of those things when you are kind of lean and mean, which I think most higher education institutions are making space for research can be tough because it's not only, it's a unique expertise, there's also like a level of technical savvy that you have to have in order to get the dashboard set up.

[00:29:39] Kelly Hiller: So it's one of those things that you do have to, I feel dedicate as. As a priority if the budget for, get the expertise behind and decide what, what is it that we're going to measure and then what are like, based on what we're gonna measure, how are we going to action on those results? Because if you're, if you're just measuring things or kind of have random KPIs each time and those aren't driving decisions, then it, that was a waste of time.

[00:30:03] Kelly Hiller: So we're really focused on how do we. Get actionable measurement or actual decisions or information you know, and message testing. Okay. We review that with the team and then what are we changing about our creative based on what we learned? So that has definitely been a, a muscle that we have continued to build post Brandand launch.

[00:30:21] Kelly Hiller: Mm-hmm.

[00:30:22] Cheryl Broom: That's great. I love this idea of a brand health scorecard. I, I feel like branding is one of those things that you just can't put. You just can't put a dollar amount, you just can't measure it. Well, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't measure something, but, but sometimes there are some things that just aren't gonna translate into numbers.

[00:30:41] Cheryl Broom: But at least having something that you're looking at and providing to the college and you know, to the board or whoever is

[00:30:49] Cheryl Broom: looking at your department is helpful rather than just being like, yeah, we're our brand's. Great.

[00:30:54] Cheryl Broom: It's, 

[00:30:54] Kelly Hiller: And it's, I think it's more important than ever actually as budgets get tighter across the higher education space in marketing, you've now gotta be talking the same language as your finance people, as your CFO. what, what is the ROI here? Where are we driving? you know, what impact are we making to justify those budget dollars?

[00:31:14] Kelly Hiller: 'cause for, particularly in the public space, you know, we aim to be good stewards and we wanna be driving impact, and so you've got to where you can, associate that back to ROI from the university. Thank

[00:31:25] Cheryl Broom: for sure. Well, I've loved talking to you.

[00:31:28] Cheryl Broom: I've written down like 10 different things and points that I wanna think about more and explore and as we wrap up our conversation with such a great. Background that you've had, in marketing and such a lengthy background at Purdue. Is there anything, if you could go back to your earlier, younger self, is there any piece of advice that you would give at the start of your career?

[00:31:51] Kelly Hiller: There is, I think I am kind of a rule follower by nature and you know, early in your career, I think you're, you're in this mode of kind of pleaser mode. Like you're wanting to establish yourself, you're learning that's a little bit vulnerable. if I went back and talked to younger Kelly, I would say be more curious.

[00:32:11] Kelly Hiller: You know, we, one of my favorite shows is Ted Lasso. It's like. Amazing from a business perspective, but be curious and not judgmental. Ask more of the why's, whether that's behind decisions or details or whatever the case may be. I think that would've served me well if I was more curious in my younger years and kind of, of ramping up and, probably just get thinking more outside the box.

[00:32:35] Kelly Hiller: Like now that's very natural to me. But in my, in my younger days, not so much.

[00:32:40] Cheryl Broom: Such great advice, and let me tell you, this is such great advice for branding because if you're a people pleaser

[00:32:45] Cheryl Broom: and trying to adhere to a brand, you are going to destroy your

[00:32:48] Cheryl Broom: brand. 

[00:32:48] Kelly Hiller: are going to destroy your brand, and I think that. and I, and not destroy, but I I've seen the impact of like, of, of leaders who were n not comfortable making decisions based on data and trying to be people pleasers. It just fractures the whole organ. It fractures the organization. so that is one thing that I, as I've grown, and of course this comes with time and experience and age, is you get more confident and like, making decisions is something that I am very, very passionate about.

[00:33:22] Kelly Hiller: There not waffling making the call, like that's what I'm paid to do is, is make the call. There's rarely a decision that you can't walk back if you were wrong. And just continuing to learn and, and grow as you do it.

[00:33:34] Cheryl Broom: Thanks. Such great advice. Kelly. I've really enjoyed our conversation. I wanna thank

[00:33:38] Kelly Hiller: Yeah. Thank you. 

[00:33:39] Cheryl Broom: me today.

[00:33:40] Kelly Hiller: Great. Appreciate. I love anytime I can talk about my job. It's a good day.